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Characters vs phonetic writing systems
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wix -

ChouDoufu wrote this another thread but I am quoting it here to start a new topic, because it is
an interesting and important issue. Let the debate begin...



Quote:


Originally Posted by ChouDoufu

Yes, learning Chinese characters are difficult. That's the only thing I agree with though. There
are a lot of people who have a belief that writing systems should be phonetic (I find it
incredibly ironic that a native English speaker is praising the English phonetic system. English
phonetics don't make a lot of sense either--under pronunciation rules in english "ghoti" can sound
like "fish). Well, obviously if a language had a phonetic alphabet, it makes it easier to write
and read. But to say that All languages need to be phonetic is just ridiculous. What makes Chinese
appealing to so many people are the characters. Without the characters, Chinese would be
destroying thousands of years of history.

I don't think they should do that in order to appease people who want to learn the language. I've
always found characters to be rewarding and intruiging.

Yes it's difficult, but it's the difficulties that make things interesting.






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Anonymous -

I pretty much agree with Chou Doufu. Also I'd like to add that one advantage characters have over
a phonetic writing system is that with characters, readers immediately get the meaning in his or
her head. It's almost like looking at a painting rather than just text. Good examples can be found
in Japanese where the writing system is a mixture of characters (Kanji) and phoentic letters
(kanas).

However, a phoentic system is also extremely important and also has its advantages. This is why
the Zhuyin Fuhao was first invented in the early 1900's and then later Hanyu Pinyin.










roddy -

Thanks for starting the thread wix, I hadn't had time to do it myself last night.



Quote:

readers immediately get the meaning in his or her head

Sorry, but they don't. Nobody who hadn't studied Chinese (or any other simliar language could look
at � and think fish - it's only through repeated association of the symbol and the idea that the
meaning comes into your head.

If readers immediately got the meaning in their head, we wouldn't need to learn Chinese - we would
already know it.

Roddy










jwarriner -

Kind of an interesting paradox here. Sure written language came after spoken language but the
pictographic or ideographic nature of Chinese characters says to me that the effort to develop the
written language wasn't based entirely on the spoken word but also attempted to pictorially
represent the thing, concept, idea, etc. So once you know what a character means it seems to me
possible that at least some of its meaning is taken in visually rather than aurally. Even with my
limited knowledge of Chinese, there are times when I remember what a character means but not how
to say it.
And the use in China of certain characters in art of various forms suggests that much of its
meaning is indeed transferred visually. There's a big difference between having a painting on the
wall with
DAO
and one with
�

cheers,
john










Anonymous -



Quote:


Originally Posted by roddy

Thanks for starting the thread wix, I hadn't had time to do it myself last night.



Quote:

readers immediately get the meaning in his or her head

Sorry, but they don't. Nobody who hadn't studied Chinese (or any other simliar language could look
at ? and think fish - it's only through repeated association of the symbol and the idea that the
meaning comes into your head.

If readers immediately got the meaning in their head, we wouldn't need to learn Chinese - we would
already know it.

Roddy


Uhm, you're kidding right? Although I didn't specify but I assumed people would know that I was
talking about people who know the characters. Of course the modern Hanzi won't look like anything
but scribbles to those who don't know Chinese...










sudasana -

You can't say that characters have a natural association with the idea they represent: even the
ideographic class of characters is opaque to anyone who hasn't learned their meaning. In both
character and phonetic writing you have a sign which corresponds to an idea. With characters, you
have a vast number of signs, the pronounciation of which is bascially arbitrary, and varies by
dialaect and time period. With phonetic writing, you have a small set of signs that indicate
sounds.

The Chinese writing system is ineffecient in that it requires a lot of investment in order to
master written communication; in the past this helped keep the literati in power, by maintaining a
monopoly on the creation and spread of texts. Regardless of its artistic or historical value, the
character system has no benefits over a phonetic system. It's only the massive inertia of the
character system that keeps it alive; Vietnam and Korea were successful in developing phonetic
systems to write their languages, whereas in the past they used Chinese characters.

I was pretty excited about Chinese characters too until I read Asia's Orthographic Dilemma. If you
strip away the exoticism that comes with a 'strange' method of writing, you may realize that, at
best, hanzi solve many of the problems that they themselves cause.










roddy -



Quote:

one advantage characters have over a phonetic writing system is that with characters, readers
immediately get the meaning in his or her head

This means readers of phonetic scripts don't immediately get the meaning in their head, which is
simply not true - I can't believe reading � is any more immediate than reading fish.

I'd also like to agree with what sudsana wrote - and thanks for saving me the bother of typing it
all.

Roddy










confucius -

Using the Chinese character for fish is a horrible example to make a point for phonetics. The key
to learning new words in Chinese is understanding the importance of compound meanings. This allows
you to guess at the meaning of new words by immediately analyzing the two characters it's
comprised of.
For example, if I just write "nankan" in pinyin phonetics then a Chinese guy won't have any clue
what it means. Yet when he sees the characters for "nan" and "kan" then at least he knows the new
word means "something that is difficult to look at" and concludes that those two characters
together mean "ugly"










roddy -

Yeah, I agree that once you've learnt the characters Chinese isn't so difficult - and like the
ugly example, Chinese vocabulary can be beautifully logical.

It's learning the characters in the first place that's the problem - not just for us, but for
generations of Chinese people.

Roddy










roddy -

And . . .(forgot this)

I've been told that it's impossible to create an adequate phonetic system for Chinese, as there
are so few phonemes you have too many homonyns.

Sounds like rubbish to me. A phonetic script is simply one that includes all the information given
by the spoken language - if you have a spoken language that works, then you can have a phonetic
system. You just need a consistent orthagraphy - whether you do this with tone marks above vowels,
numbers after syllables, or whatever, it'll work.

Sure, you might have problems with words in isolation - context won't help you - but how often do
you have words in isolation?

Roddy












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> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
Learning Chinese and forgetting the rest. . .
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roddy -

There's a topic on here about getting foreign languages mixed up. Does anyone find they start
making a mess of their own language after too long working in Chinese?

I'm finding my English getting more and more Chinese like. I've been known to ask people to 'open
a light' rather than turn on one, and frequently have to go back to my office because I've
forgotten to 'close my computer' rather than turn it off or shut it down.

I've also made reference recently to a floor comb (floorbrush) and electric tap (plug). These are
perhaps most worrying as I don't think they're even correct in Chinese, never mind English.

Roddy



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ChouDoufu -

I think that just happens naturally. If you don't speak your native language enough with native
speakers then your level definitely drops. If you said those things in the UK or the states then
people would look at you funny.

After a while, when people asked me questions about English I'd just say, "I should know the
answer to that, but I don't because my English isn't nearly as good as it used to be."










Humani -

I do that, without even knowing chinese... I mean I'll say 'you close the computer, or?' instead
of 'did you switch off the computer?' 'you put the CD where?' instead of 'where did you put the
CD?'even when i can't say that sentence in chinese... we have conversations like that all the
time, english words and chinese grammar.. no-one knows both languages properly... (and this is in
england). it's a real effort, to start speaking properly when i'm with my family. my mum keeps
telling me i've said a strange sentence, and i don't even notice..

when i get around to learning these words in chinese, I hoping the word order will come natuarlly
at least!










Tsunku -

I've been called out on my "Chinglish" more than once. Since I was living in China with a Chinese
person (but mostly speaking English) it got really bad. I was supposed to be correcting my
boyfriend's grammar and helping it out, but I was worse than he was.

I still catch myself sometimes now that I'm back. What's worse is mixing Chinese into English. My
friends probably think I'm trying to be ghetto with all the "nigga nigga." That was one that I
*swore* to myself I would try not to import back to the states, but it pops out my mouth all the
time anyhow.










skylee -

But this is what happens to us in HK all the time. We basically cannot say anything without mixing
up Chinese and English. I have to make an effort to speak completely in Chinese.

I recall back in univ, there was a teacher who was Taiwanese, educated in the US and taught in HK.
He could not complete a sentence without using all three (mandarin, english and cantonese).










confucius -

I find it mildly annoying when I'm talking to native Chinese speakers and they somehow mix English
words into their language despite the fact that suitable Chinese vocabulary exists. It's usually
like this:
"Nei ge Feizhou tongxue hen polite; wo xiang qing ta lai women de party."
In my mind I always immediately translate whatever English words were just spoken into the proper
Mandarin, sometimes I even interrupt them with the appropriate Chinese word.










wix -



Quote:


Originally Posted by confucius

I find it mildly annoying when I'm talking to native Chinese speakers and they somehow mix English
words into their language despite the fact that suitable Chinese vocabulary exists.


confucius, I agree. Foreigners in China are also guilty of doing the same while speaking English.
e.g. Let's go out for a few pijiu's and so on. It is really only useful when you are using a word
which is difficult to translate or has no equivalent in the other language.










jekor -

One girl I spoke with in Japan switched between Esperanto, English, and Japanese all within the
same sentence. By the end of one day of speaking with her, not only was I exhausted, but I was
doing the same thing myself. I wish I had a recording of the conversation we had while I was
showing her how to transfer images from her digital camera to her computer...










pazu -



Quote:


Originally Posted by confucius

I find it mildly annoying when I'm talking to native Chinese speakers and they somehow mix English
words into their language despite the fact that suitable Chinese vocabulary exists. It's usually
like this:
"Nei ge Feizhou tongxue hen polite; wo xiang qing ta lai women de party."
In my mind I always immediately translate whatever English words were just spoken into the proper
Mandarin, sometimes I even interrupt them with the appropriate Chinese word.



Oh Confucius, for the first time I agree with you totally!

This is something I hate too. I'm Chinese, but whenever Chinese talked to me with too much
unnecessary interruption of English words, I just told them if they could speak Chinese well...
it's just too annoying. Do you know the pianist Lang Lang? (I forgot his name in Chinese... LONG
LONG in Cantonese anyway), he was interviewed on RTHK when he was in Hong Kong, and I wonder what
he's really want to tell, e.g. "wo juede zheshi hen... IN'NOVATIVE ,,, hen you CHUANGYI, wo hai
shi hen xihuan zhexie MUSIC,,, jiushi YINYUE!

Okay, he didn't use this wording, but I'm just trying to do what he did in the interview.

Oh what the hell he was talking about? Like going in an English lesson, tell you an English word,
then come with a Chinese explanation. This is really some of the most annoying thing you can hear.

But of course, I don't mind to put some English words into conversation, but they should be
necessary or at least accepted by most people. Like CD, i-cable (a company name in Hong Kong, they
have a Chinese name too), NOTEBOOK (computer), MOUSEEEE (computer), etc.










skylee -

The pianist's name is 郎朗.












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> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China
JOB OPPORTUNITIES Beijing ?
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beijingbooty -

Can anyone offer any advice on what sort of job opportunities would be available for me in Beijing.
I guess the most obvious is teaching english, but I do not have a University degree so does that
limit me in that respect ?
I do want to go and live.work in Bejing with my chinese wife however I really am at a loss as to
what sort of work I would be able to get that pays well. What sort of "good" opportunites are
there for mandarin speaking europeans ?
Any advice would be great.


My situation is:
native english speaker 32 years old.
LANGUAGE: Intermediate mandarin, good enough for basic communication in a workplace. Constantly
improving
TRADE: printing industry prepress operatior - typesetting, design techinal operation etc.



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TSkillet -

Officially, not having a University degree does limit you - but in practice, it's certainly been
done quite a lot. If the legalness worries you - look into private teaching. Try snooping around
thatsbeijing.com












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> Learning Chinese > Chinese Tattoos, Chinese Names and Quick Translations
i've seen this in a comic
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Jill77 -

Any idea about the meaning?

thanks



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skylee -

西
班
牙

It means "Spain". Very bad handwriting.












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> Learning Chinese > Grammar and Vocabulary
摔倒 vs 摔到 or 摔到了
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Luobot -

( 1 ) 摔倒 Shuāidǎo
( 2 ) 摔到 Shuāi dào ( or with the seemingly obligatory 了) 摔到了 Shuāi dàole

Both are defined as “to fall” and the characters ( 倒 / 到 ) are close enough to have
confused me for a while into thinking they were the same, until just now, when I realized there
was a tone difference (dao3 vs. dao4) and looked more closely.

So, does anyone know if there's a difference in usage between these two terms or are they
interchangeable in sentences?



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monto -

( 1 ) 摔倒 Shuāidǎo: to fall down, lying after 摔.
我看到有人跑过去把摔倒的老人扶了起来。
( 2 ) 摔到 Shuāi dào ( or with the seemingly obligatory 了) 摔到了 Shuāi dàole
a> 摔到(摔到了) = 摔着（摔着了）to be made to fall
John slipped in night. Jack （in concern）: 你摔到了吗？John: 差一点。没摔到。
b> 摔到 to throw something onto.....
他把杯子摔到（了）地上










semantic nuance -

Hmmm, I'll try to explain but mind you this is totally out of my instinct instead of any
grammatical rules. My understanding is that:

You can take 摔 alone kind of like transitive verb. For exmaple: 我摔了一跤. 摔倒 , kind
of like phrasal verb (倒 like off). As for 摔到..., you may take 到 once again as an
preposition to indicate where and what you fall on(i.e. on the ground, on knees, etc.)

我摔倒了. I fell off.
我摔倒在地上了. I fell off on the ground.
我摔到地上去了. I fell off on the ground.
我摔到膝蓋了. I fell off and hurt my knees.

Hope it helps!










foryou1437 -

摔倒 vs 摔到 or 摔到了 Remember the rule just a subject and a singel verb cannt make a
sentene in China
!

The three phrases all contain "fall/tumble" respectively. 倒 means "a status, over" , 到 means"
to affect", 了 means" already"

The first 摔倒 will be followed with a Where to complete a full sentence , such as ,摔倒 on
the ground. 我摔倒在地上。I fall myeself on the ground
the third 摔到了 = 摔倒， but needs no any more following word . 了 here equal to already.
我摔倒了。I fall myself .

The second 摔到 contain two part, 摔 and 到. 到 means "to afftect". So 摔到 = fall and
afftect , here = fall and hurt . 我摔到膝盖。I fall and hurt my knees.










Luobot -

Thanks, everyone, for the explanations.












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> Learning Chinese > Chinese Tattoos, Chinese Names and Quick Translations
Translating names - Urgent!
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FencerPT -

Can anyone write me in Chinese characters the following names, belonging to the members of the
Portuguese fencing team in the Beijing Olympics:

- Joaquim Videira
- Helder Alves
- Debora Nogueira
- Eduardo Pereira

Thanks in advance!



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FencerPT -

I posted a thread, last week, asking for someone's help to translate into Chinese the names of the
Portuguese fencers who'll be in the Olympics (Debora Nogueira, Eduardo Pereira, Joaquim Videira
and Helder Alves). Although lots of people read it, no translation is available so far. Is it that
difficult?!
Thanks in advance.










imron -

It's not necessarily difficult, it's just imprecise. Have a read of these two threads to get an
idea of why:

http://www. /showthread.php?t=16630
http://www. /showthread.php?t=14087

There is also the problem that any names that people provide for you here, will be different from
the official names that will presumably be chosen for you by the Beijing Olympic organising
committee and/or the Chinese media.










Lu -

I also suspect that this is not the place to ask such things. If you need it for anything
important (as suggested by the 'urgent'), you're best off asking some official source (some
Chinese Olympic committee? Those fencers must have registered somewhere in China), not a public
forum, however helpful people here are. If you are the official source, you should presumably find
someone reliable used to this kind of work and pay them to give you a good transliteration.

I hope you find it!










renzhe -

There are probably about 300 ways to transcribe each one of those names, and they are likely to be
different from the official transcription used by the IOC.












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> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China
Sending Books from US to China
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Zhoule -

I am heading back to the US for a couple weeks worth of work/meetings, etc and wanted to ship some
books back to China that are currently rotting away in a US storage unit(much like my brain is
rotting away without the books in China ).
The last time I looked into doing this (December of '07) I was disappointed to see that the USPS
no longer did the MBag, or any surface mail, overseas, and only offered airmail.

Has anyone found another method to be workable? I am talking about ~200 lbs of books, 3 large
boxes. Though this could be paired down (and would definitely be if I have to do some variant of
airmail). Got at least another 5-7 years here (minus 6 month time served ) and the thought of
having to order from Amazon once a month when I already have a ton of books in the US waiting to
be read is heart breaking



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self-taught-mba -

I think the USPS has a flat rate box for $38 bucks (priority mailer). No weight limit. Seen people
get the heaviest books into those. I know you said NOT USPS but many don't know about the
flat-rate options. Sorry best I can do.










889 -

Your airline will charge a fortune for overweight checked luggage: the standard is something like
1 percent of the published first-class fare per kilo.

But most airlines also offer an alternate, usually called something like "unaccompanied baggage,"
that gets shipped as cargo. Usually you have to deliver the stuff yourself to the airline's cargo
terminal the day before you leave, then pick it up and clear customs at the air cargo terminal at
the other end.

Cost will vary with the airline, but they should be able to give you a quote over the phone. Be
sure to ask about all the surcharges.

(The $38.95 flat-rate USPS box has a 20-lb limit.)












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> Studying, Working and Living in China > Universities and Schools > Studying
Chinese in Beijing
BLCU Housing Info, what I know
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Page 13 of 13 First < 31112 13






gablaze23 -

Thanks. I've seen those pics some time ago. Any others??



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BLCUP -

i am a blcu staff










eddie9684 -



Quote:

i am a blcu staff

nice, any recommendation ?










George--- -

What are the rates for dorm 17?










raymond23 -

I've got a video showing my room in BLCU's Conference Center.
Also I'm going to goto my friends room at Dorm 17 and I'm going to record that and upload to my
account soon.
http://youtube.com/user/RayisLost

As far as I know... rooms @ Dorm 17 is around 100rmb/day.
This is from my friends that are living @ Dorm 17 currently.

I'm living at the conference center and I'm paying around 120rmb/day but thats with a three month
stay discount. They also have a half a year discount which I think is 110rmb/day.
So that might be a choice for you guys.












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> Learning Chinese > Grammar and Vocabulary
True Plurals in Chinese
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tooironic -

A phenomenon I noticed recently in some dictionaries, is that they give definitions to some
Chinese words with the marker (pl.) [plural] next to them. Is this to suggest that, despite
Chinese having no grammatical category for number, there are indeed some characters which are
exclusively plural?

Here's a few examples I found quickly:

师资 Teachers
时事　Current affairs
世人 The common people
世事　The world affairs
市民　City residents

Could all these be used only in a plural context? Or can they be both plural and singular? In
which case my dictionary appears to have made some errors...



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889 -

Well first, there are a small number of "true plurals" in Chinese: think 你们 nimen, for example.

And second, is that dictionary you're using a Chinese > English one? If so, it's probably intended
mainly for Chinese users working in English. That suggests those plural notations refer not to the
Chinese words, but to the English ones, telling the user that it's "the common people are," not
"the common people is."










imron -



Quote:

Could all these be used only in a plural context?

市民 at least can be used in the singular.










tooironic -



Quote:

And second, is that dictionary you're using a Chinese > English one? If so, it's probably intended
mainly for Chinese users working in English. That suggests those plural notations refer not to the
Chinese words, but to the English ones, telling the user that it's "the common people are," not
"the common people is."

I also considered that, but why choose plural definitions for some words and not for others?
At any rate, I'd be interested to know the existence of other plural-only Chinese words...










yonglin -

I think that some of these are uncountable rather than in the plural form.

(You may want to compare them with nouns such as "news", "evidence" or "information" in English.)










tooironic -

Got some more examples:

书籍 Books
树木　Trees
双方　Both sides
双胞胎　Twins
双亲 Parents
水产 Aquatic products
水货 Smuggled/inferior goods
水禽 Aquatic birds
死党 Diehard supporters
岁月 Years

Could these, as well as those in the original post, be seen as 'plural versions' of their singular
counterparts? Assuming these counterparts are easily identified? What I'm veering towards is an
argument that would state that Chinese does have its own de-facto form of pluralisation, even if
it is expressed lexically (rather than most European languages, which express number
grammatically).










Ah-Bin -

Some nouns that originally indicated plurals with 民 (meaning "people") are used as singular in
Chinese too. So I think some nouns can change from a singular meaning to a plural meaning and
no-one will notice.

At least I think they were plural. They are of a semi-political and post-1949 in character. I
don't know whether areas outside PRC jurisdiction use them.

農民 - farmer (Taiwan uses 農夫 I think)
漁民 - fisherman (I'm not sure about 漁夫, though)

Oh no, I was wrong - 原住民 - Aboriginal Taiwanese - is used officially in Taiwan.

Then there are collective nouns that have become singular. Like 族

So it seems natural in the PRC to say 我是漢族 "I am ethnically Han" (or at least that's what
is stamped on my identity card). But the grammar seems strange. How can a single person be a whole
"族"? Outside PRC jurisdication I think people tend to say the singulars 漢人 or 華人 and
西藏人 instead of 漢族 and　藏族. Mind you this is just my feeling based on what I have
heard, so I may be wrong.












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> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
多 - tone change from duō to duó?
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dsrguru -

I was always under the assumption that 多 is pronounced duō. I've been working through the FSI
course (rather slowly), and in the fifth and sixth units of the BIO module, 多大 is taught as
duódà and 多久 as duójiǔ. FSI does that kind of thing often (e.g. teaching 中國人 as
Zhōngguorén instead of Zhōngguórén and 七個 (likewise for 八個) as qíge instead of qīge
or qīgè) to make the pronunciation more accurate, but I have never seen 多 taught as duó in my
life. Can anyone, perhaps a native speaker, verify this?



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necroflux -

Not a native speaker but I can attest to the fact that everywhere in Taiwan and China I've been
it's definitely pronounced duo1.

If you have questions like this on tones you can check an actual Chinese dictionary online
(Chinese to Chinese):

http://dict.revised.moe.edu.tw/cgi-b...op=f&imgFont=1

That particular dictionary is from Taiwan, tones may change for some words but this one should be
as consistent as they get from region to region.










HashiriKata -

@dsrguru: I'm not a native speaker but your observation above is all correct, and it is quite
common for 多大 to be pronounced as duódà and 多久 as duójiǔ. The only thing I'd say is
that if you would like to imitate, just imitate the combinations you've actually heard (ie, not
yourself create new ones).
(干吗 is also pronounced as gan4ma2, by the way)










skylee -

Some of the posts in this thread are relevant ->
http://www. /showthread.php?t=22937

Also take a look at the dictionary of the Taiwan Ministry of Education (the same dictionary quoted
by necroflux) -



Quote:

多　　部首　夕　部首外筆畫　3　總筆畫　6
注音一式　 ㄉㄨㄛˊ
通用拼音　 duó 注音二式　 duó

副
何等、如何。表疑問、感嘆的語氣。如：「多好」、「多高」、「帶大一個�
��子是多麼不容易啊！」












dsrguru -

Thanks guys.

necroflux - My Chinese isn't good enough at present to use that dictionary (and I never bothered
to learn bopomofo), but I'm bookmarking it for the future.

HashiriKata - I'm glad to hear that. I think I'll pronounce 多 as duó in the specific
combinations in which FSI teaches it as duó, and I'll pronounce it as duō everywhere else.

skylee - I remember glancing through that thread about a month ago, but I didn't notice your post
and muyongshi's reply. Thanks. Before posting this thread, I had searched with Google using
site: rather than with this site's search feature (I got the idea from you), but
that thread didn't come up. I think I searched for 多 duó rather than 多 duo2. Note to self:
remember to search for pinyin both with tone marks and with numbers. When did that dictionary say
to pronounce 多 as duó? I tried using Google Translator to get a very general idea but it came
out even worse than normal:


Quote:

Xi radical and more radical, three strokes of six strokes
Pronunciation of a building ㄨ ㄛ ˊ
Tongyong Pinyin duó Phonetic two-duó

Deputy
How, how. Table doubt, laments the tone. Such as: "good" and "high" and "brought up a child how
Burongyia!"












skylee -



Quote:


Originally Posted by dsrguru

When did that dictionary say to pronounce 多 as duó?


The dictionary says it is used as an adverb (which is what the character "副" means) and
pronounced duó in exclamation and to express doubt. Examples are "How nice!" ("多好"), "How
hard it is to bring up a child!" ("帶大一個孩子是多麼不容易啊！") , etc.










dsrguru -

Okay, thanks. That still leaves question phrases like 多大, 多久, and 多少. I'm guessing
based on necroflux's and HashiriKata's posts that they can be pronounced either way, but I'm a
little wary of this. I think I'll follow FSI (duó) until native speakers tell me it sounds weird.










zhxlier -

Native speaker here. Born and raised in Beijing, so I can only speak of the situation in Beijing.

My impression: when used as an adverb, 多 can be pronounced as both duo1 and duo2.
When pronounced duo1, it sounds more formal and neutral.
When pronounced duo2, it sounds more casual and/or emotional.

Example, if I'm shopping, I'd ask "多(duo1) 少钱？“ (How much?)
If I learned that someone bought this 4-bedroom luxury house, I'd say
"那得花多(duo2)少钱啊！" (Imagine HOW MUCH that would cost!)
But even in these context, duo1 and duo2 are still exchangeable.

Of course, when used an an adjective, 多 is always pronounced duo1 (as in 许多).










dsrguru -

zhxlier, thank you very much.












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> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
Yale 130 L&S Transcripts
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Page 1 of 2 1 2 >






Aloysius -

The Yale Chinese CH130 website provides us kindly with the audio recordings of David and Helen in
China and Listening & Speaking Chinese. The first 15 (of the total 20) L&S recordings come with
transcripts and are downloadable from the website.

This morning I very quickly wrote out Lesson 20, but there could be some small mistakes especially
towards the end where I lost concentration and wasn't too qingchu about one or two things (oh and
I was too lazy to IME all the de's, a bad habit - not cross-checking the IME in general btw. :>).
近年来不少去过中国的人都会为五光十色的服装而惊叹。过去的二十年来，�
��国经济的改革开放也促进了人们思想和文化观念的开放。从中国人的穿着��
�扮上，我们可以清楚地看到中国人生活中所发生的巨大变化。今天中国不仅
是世界上最大的服装出口国，而且也是服装的最大消费国。在改革开放以前�
��也就是八十年代以前，中国的服装一直是式样单一花色单调。居常颜的颜��
�都是深色的或者暗色的，如蓝的，绿的，灰的，黑的，等等。不管男女老少
人人都穿同样颜色合同颜式样的衣服，没有个性，没有各自的特地。这种单�
��单调的服装反映了当时落后的经济状况。人民穿衣服不是为了装饰不是为��
�好看，而这是为了遮蔽身体和防御寒冷。对老百姓来说，很少有人买得起贵
重的衣服。即使有钱政府也不鼓励人们穿新奇的衣服。今天不同了，
美容服饰成了人们生活中很重要的一部分。很都人尤其是年轻人和一切白领�
��作人员，每个月的收入很大一部分都花在衣服上。人们不再每天只穿统一��
�衣服或统一式样的衣服。他们学会了打扮自己，让自己跟别人不一样。而且
不但年轻人爱美连老年人也越来越追求美了。老年人过去连做梦也不感想花�
��绿绿的衣服。现在都勇敢的穿戴了现象。美丽漂亮的服装是这些老年人感��
�年轻了跟富有朝气了。中国的服装款式在不断地变化。服装设计师么也在不
断把新的样式核心的色彩推向市场，以满足人们的需求。从某种意义上说中�
��多彩的不装市场，最生动地展现了一个变化中的中国和变化中的中国人。
I was wondering does anybody have 16-19? And what about D&H; did anyone ever bother?
Still need to look at D&H really, I have no idea if it's any good.

Ta in advance anyway good people.



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atitarev -

Excellent resources, will download all these and work through! It took me a little white to
navigate.

Sorry, can't help with your query. I've never seen this textbook but it seems very popular. I've
been using "New Practical Chinese Reader" among others.










Aloysius -

Yale's Listening & Speaking's #19 - 赴宴

你好郭红红。诶呀雅克，你昨天晚上干什么去了？我们不是说好在一起复习�
��课了吗。到处找你找不到，大家都以为你失踪了呢。天啊，我这么把复习��
�课的事忘了，对不起郭红红。我昨天晚上去参加了一个结婚宴会特别热闹。
你还有心思去参加宴会啊？下星期这就大考了。没办法好朋友邀请不能拒绝�
��。那你参加的是谁的结婚宴会？是我的球友老张的。老张？
多老了？什么才结婚呢？大家都叫他老张，其实他并不老，才这有二十七岁�
��他已经看了两年的恋爱，昨天正好是八月八号。据说是个吉利的日子。一��
�儿不错。八八八发发发，发就是发财的意思。怎么样宴会上的人多吗？多极
了，新郎和新粮双方的很多亲戚朋友。多出席了宴会。游戏什么活动呢？主�
��人先让新郎新娘介绍恋爱经过。他们是自由恋爱的，没有通过别人的介绍��
�不过他们的故事还是挺浪漫的。还有什么人讲话?
好几个人都讲了话，因为我肚子早饿了,没认真听他们到底受了谢(?)什么。好
像都在重复说恭喜恭喜,早得贵子，白头到老之类的话。那你一定吃了不少好
东西吧。真的我第一次看见真么丰盛的酒席，山珍海味，应有尽有。你没有�
��坏肚子吧？
绝对没有，不过我喝酒喝多了一点儿，因为大家呼唱（？）敬酒，尤其看见�
��是个会说中国话的老外。更是（？）劝我多喝幸亏我酒量大没有喝醉。别��
�了！我看你现在还有一点儿醉呢
.开玩笑吧！我要是醉了，还能在这儿给你说话吗？

Post scriptum request for the good people - please enlighten me on the meaning of
"哪怕只有碗来粗细罢".










monto -

近年来不少去过中国的人都会为五光十色的服装而惊叹。过去的二十年来，�
��国经济的改革开放也促进了人们思想和文化观念的开放。从中国人的穿着��
�扮上，我们可以清楚地看到中国人生活中所发生的巨大变化。今天中国不仅
是世界上最大的服装出口国，而且也是服装的最大消费国。在改革开放以前�
��也就是八十年代以前，中国的服装一直是式样单一花色单调。居常颜的颜��
�都是深色的或者暗色的，如蓝的，绿的，灰的，黑的，等等。不管男女老少
人人都穿同样颜色和同颜式样的衣服，没有个性，没有各自的特点。这种单�
��单调的服装反映了当时落后的经济状况。人们穿衣服不是为了装饰，不是��
�了好看，而是为了遮蔽身体和防御寒冷。对老百姓来说，很少有人买得起贵
重的衣服。即使有钱政府也不鼓励人们穿新奇的衣服。今天不同了，
美容服饰成了人们生活中很重要的一部分。很多人尤其是年轻人和一些白领�
��作人员，每个月的收入很大一部分都花在衣服上。人们不再每天只穿同一��
�衣服或统一式样的衣服。他们学会了打扮自己，让自己跟别人不一样。而且
不但年轻人爱美，连老年人也越来越追求美了。老年人过去连做梦也不敢想�
��花绿绿的衣服，现在都勇敢地穿戴了现象。美丽漂亮的服装使这些老年人��
�觉年轻了，更富有朝气了。中国的服装款式在不断地变化。服装设计师们也
在不断把新的样式和新的色彩推向市场，以满足人们的需求。从某种意义上�
��中国多彩的服装市场，最生动地展现了一个变化中的中国和变化中的中国��
�。

The characters in red look odd there, but I don't know what they were supposed to be. The ones in
blue are the corrections I made according to grammar or common sense. Hope it be some help.










Aloysius -

#18 中国人的三大件
过去二十多年来，中国发生了巨大的变化。而中国人生活中的三大件的演变�
��对能代表在中国所发生的变化。什么是三大件呢？简单说来三大件就是只��
�常生活中三件很有用但也很贵重的东西。大约从七十年代初期就有了三大件
这个名词。当时中国还处在文化大革命中。那时候中国的经济情况很糟糕，�
��百姓的生活水平很低，多年来政府自力更生把中国的大门关起来。不跟西��
�国家做生意，结果好几十年中国的生财上不去，人民的生活得不到提高，常
时居民的收入很低，中国农民的生活更苦。很多地方一个人一天挣不到一分�
��。那时候中国生活中三大件就是自行车，手表和缝纫机。因为很少有家庭��
�以买得起这三大件。那时没一个大件都在一百块钱左右，算是很贵重的用品
了。一个刚参加工作的工人每个月的工资在二十多元钱，全面的工资总共不�
��二百多元钱，出去，吃饭，穿衣的钱每月很难省着(?)几块钱，所以要想买��
�大件。即使是平时很节俭也得需要好几年的时间。很多年轻人的梦想，就是
在结婚以前能够买上自行车，手表，缝纫机这三大件。到了一九七六年中国�
��领袖毛泽东去世，两年以后中国开始上世界敞开了大门。在国内政府也鼓��
�每个人想办法多挣钱。是中国的经济有了很快地发展。人民的生活水平也提
高了。到了八十年代中后期老三大件已经过时。这时的新三大件是彩电，冰�
��和洗衣机。新三大件的出
钱说明老百姓收入高了，生活改善了。到了九十年代中一些有钱的大款们又�
��了超级三大件，私房，轿车和计算机。虽然旧的三大件还没完全过时，但��
�的超级三大件一点点成为新一代中国人的梦想。谁知道了，也许在将来中国
的超级三大件也会成为过去。那时的人们一定会有更高级的三大件。

For those interested here's #18, bear in mind that this hasn't been (well) proof-read.










roddy -

过去二十多年来，中国发生了巨大的变化。而中国人生活中的三大件的演变�
��能代表在中国所发生的变化。什么是三大件呢？简单说来三大件就是指日��
�生活中三件很有用但也很贵重的东西。大约从七十年代初期就有了三大件这
个名词。当时中国还处在文化大革命中。那时候中国的经济情况很糟糕，老�
��姓的生活水平很低，多年来政府自力更生把中国的大门关起来。不跟西方��
�家做生意，结果好几十年中国的生产上不去，人民的生活得不到提高，城市
居民的收入很低，中国农民的生活更苦。很多地方一个人一天挣不到一分钱�
��那时候中国人生活中三大件就是自行车，手表和缝纫机。因为很少有家庭��
�以买得起这三大件。那时每一个大件都在一百块钱左右，算是很贵重的用品
了。一个刚参加工作的工人每个月的工资才二十多元钱，全年的工资总共不�
��二百多元钱，出去，吃饭，穿衣的钱每月很难省下几块钱，所以要想买三��
�件。即使是平时很节俭也得需要好几年的时间。很多年轻人的梦想，就是在
结婚以前能够买上自行车，手表，缝纫机这三大件。到了一九七六年中国的�
��袖毛泽东去世，两年以后中国开始向世界敞开了大门。在国内政府也鼓励��
�个人想办法多挣钱。使中国的经济有了很快的发展。人民的生活水平也提高
了。到了八十年代中后期老三大件已经过时。这时的新三大件是彩电，冰箱�
��洗衣机。新三大件的出现说明老百姓收入高了，生活改善了。到了九十年��
�中期一些有钱的大款们又有了超级三大件，私房，轿车和计算机。虽然旧的
三大件还没完全过时，但新的超级三大件已渐渐成为新一代中国人的梦想。�
��知道了，也许在将来中国的超级三大件也会成为过去。那时的人们一定会��
�了更高级的三大件。










Aloysius -

I fear a bunch of mistakes in #17 买东西
我们的生活离不开买东西，不管是吃的用都得需要（一件一件的买会来?）。
可是并不是每个人都会买东西。有的人天生就会买东西，买的东西又便宜，�
��量又好。有些人天生就不会买东西，花的（?）钱不少可是买会来的东西却�
��常不令人满意。所以很多人说买东西也是一门学文，是大有讲究的。在美��
�人们常常依靠广告买东西。每个大型货商店,每周都会印发大量的广告。商��
�也有很多推销产品的做法。比如降价销售，特价销售，买一送一，等等。这
些广告一般都夹在当地的报纸中。还有的商家把广告寄到居民的家里。很都�
��百姓先看看广告上价钱，然后决定到那个商店去买东西。所以在美国买东��
�，广告的作用是很大的。广告做得好，东西就卖得快。不错广告的商店恐怕
很难和别人竞争。另外美国的各种节假日也特别多。每个月份都有不同的节�
��。又官方认定的节日又民间的节日，直接节假日都为商家们提供难得的推��
�商品的机会（?）。商家也会根据不同的节日，在广告上推销不同的商品。��
�中国广告没有在美国那么重要。不少人这相信自己的经验（?），而（?）没�
��告是骗人的东西。在中国大城市的商业街上，更多的是
小型商店。有的卖男装，有的卖女装，一些常见的门饰还有鞋店，帽店，时�
��店，童装店，玩具店，文具店，音像店，书店，工艺品店，等等。可以说��
�什么商品，就有什么商店，每个商品的品牌也各种各样。顾客在买东西的时
候常常靠眼睛和手去判断一件东西的质量。所以中国有句倡言（？）叫货比�
��家。意思就是要又看几家商店又比较比较。然后在决定买样东西。很多会��
�东西的人常常是出了一个商店又进另一个商店需要花不少时间。所以要买到
一件自己很喜欢的东西，比用（!?）不是一间（?）很容易的事。会买东西的�
��往往是那些有耐心的人，他们把买东西当成一种乐趣，卖到东西当然好。��
�不到东西也不会太遗憾。Those of you able to pick out the 已渐渐，使 and 指‘s
impress me. Most of the corrections make sense with hindsight, but really only with hindsight.
What about “直接节假日”, it sounds correct but the meaning seems nonsensical.










roddy -

Apologies for not highlighting in red. 直接节假日 was 这些节假日. If you take a look at
the mistakes you've made you may be able to spot consistencies you can work on.

我们的生活离不开买东西，不管是吃的用的都得需要一件一件的买会来。可�
��并不是每个人都会买东西。有的人天生就会买东西，买的东西又便宜，质��
�又好。有些人天生就不会买东西，花的钱
不少可是买会来的东西却常常不令人满意。所以很多人说买东西也是一门学�
��，是大有讲究的。在美国人们常常依靠广告买东西。每个大型百货商店,每�
��都会印发大
量的广告。商家也有很多推销产品的做法。比如降价销售，特价销售，买一�
��一，等等。这些广告一般都夹在当地的报纸中。还有的商家把广告寄到居��
�的家里。很
多老百姓先看看广告上价钱，然后决定到那个商店去买东西。所以在美国买�
��西，广告的作用是很大的。广告做得好，东西就卖得快。不错广告的商店��
�怕很难和别
人竞争。另外美国的各种节假日也特别多。每个月份都有不同的节日。有官�
��认定的节日又民间的节日，这些节假日都为商家们提供了难得的推销商品��
�机会。商家也会根据不同的节日，在广告上推销不同的商品。在中国广告没
有在美国那么重要。不少人只相信自己的经验，而认为
广告是骗人的东西。在中国大城市的商业街上，更多的是
小型商店。有的卖男装，有的卖女装，一些常见的门市还有鞋店，帽店，时�
��店，童装店，玩具店，文具店，音像店，书店，工艺品店，等等。可以说��
�什么商品，
就有什么商店，每个商品的品牌也各种各样。顾客在买东西的时候常常靠眼�
��和手去判断一件东西的质量。所以中国有句常言叫货比三家。意思就是要��
�看几家商店多比较比较。然后在决定买一样东西。很多会买东西的人常常是
出了一个商店又进另一个商店需要花不少时间。所以要买到一件自己很喜欢�
��东西，并不是一件很容易的事。会买东西的人往往是那些有耐心的人，他��
�把买东西当成一种乐趣，买到东西当然好。买不到东西也不会太遗憾。










monto -

赴宴

男：你好，郭红红。
女：哎呀，雅克！你昨天晚上干什么去了？我们不是说好在一起复习功课了�
��？到处找你找不到，大家都以为你失踪了呢。
男：天啊，我这么把复习功课的事忘了！对不起，郭红红。我昨天晚上去参�
��了一个结婚宴会，特别热闹。
女：你还有心思去参加宴会啊？下星期就要大考了。
男：没办法，好朋友邀请不能拒绝啊。
女：那你参加的是谁的结婚宴会？
男：是我的球友，老张的。
女：老张？ 多老了？怎么才结婚呢？
男：大家都叫他老张。其实他并不老，才只有二十七岁。他已经谈了两年的�
��爱，昨天正好是八月八号。据说是个吉利的日子。
女：一点儿不错。八八八，发发发。发，就是发财的意思。怎么样，宴会上�
��人多吗？
男：多极了。新郎和新娘双方的很多亲戚朋友都出席了宴会。
女：有些什么活动呢？
男：主持人先让新郎新娘介绍恋爱经过。他们是自由恋爱的，没有通过别人�
��介绍。不过他们的故事还是挺浪漫的。
女：还有什么人讲话?
男：好几个人都讲了话，因为我肚子早饿了，没认真听他们到底说了些什么�
��好像都在重复说恭喜恭喜、早得贵子、白头到老之类的话。
女：那你一定吃了不少好东西吧？
男：真的。我第一次看见这么丰盛的酒席，山珍海味，应有尽有。
女：你没有吃坏肚子吧？
男：绝对没有。不过我喝酒喝多了一点儿。因为大家互相敬酒，尤其看见我�
��个会说中国话的老外，更是劝我多喝。幸亏我酒量大，没有喝醉。
女：别吹了！我看你现在还有一点儿醉呢。
男：开玩笑吧！我要是醉了，还能在这儿跟你说话吗？




Quote:

Post scriptum request for the good people - please enlighten me on the meaning of
"哪怕只有碗来粗细罢".

Some characters might be wrong there, but still can guess it is to desribe the diameter of a
cylinder or column or something shaped like that, meanig the diameter is about that of a rice bowl.










roddy -

The only place I remember seeing 碗来粗细 is in 矛盾‘s 杨树礼赞.

Quote:

这是虽在北方的风雪的压迫下却保持着倔强挺立的一种树！哪怕只有碗来粗�
��罢，它却努力向上发展，高到丈许，二丈，参天耸立，不折不挠，对抗着��
�北风。

Like monto I took it to mean 'about as wide (thick) as a bowl.












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獅子座
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Andy-Ru -

Hi everyone!! A few days ago, I saw a guy on the train with a tattoo of 獅子座 and was
wondering what this meant. Does it refer to the constellation Leo?

Thanks



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monto -

Yes. 獅子座 = Leo. It's totally of Western.












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> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China
Your Accommodation in China
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venture160 -

Sure, but its not that realistic if you work in chengdu to commute an hour everyday....



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magores -

Type of accomodation: Rented apartment.
City/Area: Beijing, on Xidawang Lu, near Shuangjing Carrefour
Description:
-1 bedroom, good sized bathroom, smallish kitchen
-living room is big enough for a dining area near the balcony
-windows face East, so I get morning sun
-26th floor of 26
-new apt complex, gated, security, etc
Rent: 3300/mo paid quarterly. Utilities (except for heating) are extra. 1-year lease.
Found via: Agent (long story I described in this post:
http://www. /showthread.php?t=20338)
Came with: All new matching furniture sets, appliances except microwave (was a wedding gift,
landlords want to take with them.)
Landlord / Building management: Landlords are a couple that recently had a baby. They are moving
to new place for a couple/few years, will want to move back eventually. The wife is very nice.
Speaks excellent English, as does her Physics professor father.

When found: October 2007

(I added the "when found" because I think that might be helpful for people considering that the
current rental/property market in Beijing is crazy compared to previously.)










muyongshi -

I moved back in December and absolutely love my new place:

110 sq. meters+balcony; 2 Bedroom, 2 Bath, 1 Gigantic Living room, and a dining room (kitchen's a
given)
Price: 400 RMB a month
Simply finished and pretty bare, no furniture just the sinks, toilets, a few counters, stove and
water heater
Rented initially for a year but will probably give 2 years next time (landlord doesn't want to be
renting for short periods of time and I don't mind longer contracts, good bargaining chip)
Found it by walking into the complex and looking at a piece of paper stuck on the wall

The money though that I saved on rent allowed me to buy all the furniture I need and in the next
year will allow me to buy some NICE stuff.

Also it is roomier than my old place and after I slapped a fresh coat of paint on the main areas,
fixed up those things, good cleaning, put pictures up it was good to go!










roddy -

Anyone else moved into a new place for the new semester? Must be a few out there . . .










mr.stinky -

ok, i'll bite....

moved into a new place last november, in a recent (15 years?) non-high rise complex.
300m to bus stop, with four lines running to school. bus ride is 4 stops or ~10 minutes.
otherwise 8 minutes by bicycle door-to-door.
loads of small restaurants and food stalls nearby, 5-minute walk to carrefour.

apartment is about 70 meters, huge living room with attached very clean kitchen.
two bedrooms with wood floors, small sunroom off the bedroom.
loads of cabinets in kitchen and bedrooms.
bathroom has tub and toilet, although i had to install a water heater.

4th floor (52 steps), away from traffic noise in center of complex.
rent is 700/month unfurnished, utilities extra. paid nine months in advance (as i
think i'll be moving someplace warmer then).

found via local agent's signboard.










skylee -

I've just moved to another apartment in the same development. The place is of the same size and
layout of my previous one but the rent is almost doubled.

City - Hong Kong

Type of accommodation - Rented apartment

Description - 556 sq ft, unfurnished, well-maintained 20 year old building in a private housing
estate of 50 multi-storey buildings, some of which are on the waterfront (mine faces the hills). 2
bedrooms, 1 living room, 1 bathroom, 1 kitchen.

Rent - HKD13,000 for 1st year, HKD14,000 for 2nd year, paid in cheques monthly (I gave 12
pre-dated cheques to the landlord one year in advance). Rent exclusive of utility charges. 2-month
security deposit. Two-year lease.

Location - Heng Fa Chuen, with a metro station just downstairs, very convenient yet quiet.

Found via - real estate agency.

Came with - 3 air-conditioners, many cupboards/wardrobes, curtains, gas stoves.

Here are some photos. You can see I am still unpacking (actually I've stopped unpacking and have
no idea how to deal with those six solidly packed boxes of books .......)










cdn_in_bj -



Quote:


Originally Posted by skylee

I've just moved to another apartment in the same development. The place is of the same size and
layout of my previous one but the rent is almost doubled.


Why is the rent double that of your previous place? Is there currently a shortage of housing in HK?



Quote:

Description - 556 sq ft, unfurnished, well-maintained 20 year old building in a private housing
estate of 50 multi-storey buildings, some of which are on the waterfront (mine faces the hills). 2
bedrooms, 1 living room, 1 bathroom, 1 kitchen.

I take it that 556 sq ft (~55 sq m) is the actual sq footage, given that there's 2 bedrooms...



Quote:

Rent - HKD13,000 for 1st year, HKD14,000 for 2nd year, paid in cheques monthly (I gave 12
pre-dated cheques to the landlord one year in advance). Rent exclusive of utility charges. 2-month
security deposit. Two-year lease.

Is that HKD 14k for the entire year, or per month? I'm guessing it's per month, as it would seem
to be too low the entire year, but still if it's monthly then that is a lot higher than I was
expecting even for HK! Also, I find it interesting that a rent increase has already been included
in the lease - it seems rather unfair to the tenant. Though it's nice that you can use pre-dated
cheques - this is one area where the mainland is still really behind.



Quote:

Location - Heng Fa Chuen, with a metro station just downstairs, very convenient yet quiet.

For those of us that aren't too familiar with HK, is this considered to be a good middle-class
type of area?

I'm just curious - do you have any idea what this apartment would cost to purchase?



Quote:

Here are some photos. You can see I am still unpacking (actually I've stopped unpacking and have
no idea how to deal with those six solidly packed boxes of books .......)

Thanks for sharing those. I see what appears to be a patterend ceiling in the first photo of your
living room - did they wallpaper the ceiling?? Also, your fridge looks really short - is that the
standard size over there?

As for your books, I suggest you find a corner to stack those boxes.










skylee -

Hi, cdn_in_bj. Re your questions, the rent is doubled because the property prices in HK are
rising. I started the lease of my previous apartment in 2003 when the economy was pretty bad so
actually the rent back then was very low.

556 sq. ft is the gross area, not actual. But the place is pretty big for me. Don't judge the size
of a HK apartment on a mainland scale ...

The rent is monthly rent. I don't think the rent increase is unfair, as the landlord has to commit
to a two-year lease. Considering that the whole lease is only worth $330K, I think it is a good
bargain to secure a two-year lease (assuming rising property prices). Otherwise (more flexible,
cheaper rent) the landlord might kick me out after say 12 months and I would have to move again.

Heng Fa Chuen is on HK island with its own metro station. I think it is a good choice for the
middle-class. And I like it as I am a HK islander and the place is quiet with very few outsiders
(if you don't live here there are not many reasons to come). Some people who need to travel after
midnight, however, find it inconvenient as the metro closes at about 1:00 am. There are many such
big private developments throughout HK. Tai Koo Shing, for example, which is closer to Central and
also has its own metro station, is like 40 years old but is still very expensive.

To buy a flat like this here you will need to spend about HKD 3.3 million (transaction date 3
April 2008 ) (source).

And yes the ceilings are wallpapered. The fridge is the smallest and cheapest (but with a freezer)
that I could find. I used to have a bigger one. But since the fridge is just for water and beer I
got a smaller one.

As for the books, I've managed to push the boxes to a corner in the spare room (too heavy for me
to stack them up though).










cdn_in_bj -



Quote:

556 sq. ft is the gross area, not actual. But the place is pretty big for me. Don't judge the size
of a HK apartment on a mainland scale ...

Ok, I won't compare HK to the mainland; I've already stopped comparing the mainland to North
America



Quote:

To buy a flat like this here you will need to spend about HKD 3.3 million (transaction date 3
April 2008 ) (source).

That works out to be HKD 5924/sq ft or HKD 65k/sq m. Wow.

It seems that HK real estate is on a tear and so are rents!

Anyways, thanks for answering my questions!










cdn_in_bj -

Here's my way-overdue contribution to this thread:

Accomodation 1:

Date: Feb 07 - Nov 07
Type of accomodation: Rented apartment
Description: 1 bedroom (separate, not studio), 55m2, new building (I was the first tenant of this
unit). Had both north and south facing windows, which was a bit unusual for a small unit.
Rent: 1800Y a month, paid quarterly. Public heating and property management fee included,
electricity and gas extra.
Location: Outside of west 4th ring, just west of Yuquan Rd and Chang An. 15 minutes walk from
subway.
Found via: Local housing agent - I had pretty much settled on the apartment complex, and went to
the various agencies in the area to find units for rent. I paid their fee of 75% of one month's
rent (was originally 100%, but I negotiated down).
Lease: Signed for 1 year, but my landlords terminated the lease early as they decided to sell the
unit. As per our contract, they paid me an early-termination penalty of one month's rent and
returned my initial deposit.
Came with: Not much - new sofa (low-quality), second-hand TV, fridge, and washer. 2 AC units but
both without heating function. Bed came with dirty Chinese-style "mattress" (1" padded board) - I
bought my own mattress. I also installed curtains over the bedroom windows and a shower curtain in
the bathroom. Later on I also eventually purchased a microwave oven, and a coffee table and floor
lamp from Ikea.
Landlord / Building management: Landlords lived in the same complex, a couple of buildings over.
It was obvious that this was their first time renting, but they were nice. The building management
was responsive the few times I needed to call them. All gates to the complex had tight security (a
good thing), and I felt safe living here.
Notes: My landlords knew from the start they'd be renting this unit out, so they spent the least
amount of money possible renovating and furnishing it. But I was somewhat in a hurry to find a
place and the price was right (other better-furnished units in the same complex were going for
around 2200Y).

Accomodation 2:

Date: Nov 07 - present
Type of accomodation: Rented apartment
Description: 1 bedroom (separate, not studio), 57m2, east facing unit. Building is 5 or 6 years
old but this was and still is considered to be one of the better complexes in the area.
Rent: 2500Y a month, paid quarterly. Property management fee included, electricity and gas extra.
No public heating in this building - units have gas furnaces for the heating and hot water. So I'm
paying for heat, but the good thing is that I can have heat whenever I want.
Location: XuanWu district, near GuangAnMen bridge. Not sure how far of a walk it is to the nearest
subway.
Found via: Local housing agent - again, I had settled on the apartment complex, and went to the
various agencies in the area to find units for rent. I paid their fee of 100% of one month's rent.
This time I didn't directly negotiate the agency fee - instead, I was able to negotiate the
monthly rent with my landlord, which had the effect of reducing the fee.
Lease: Signed for 6 months.
Came with: Everything I need, even an extra mattress (so a total of 3 mattresses, including the
one I had purchased while staying at the 1st apartment!), plenty of built-in shelving and storage
space. This is quite a contrast to the 1st place. The only downside is that the TV is tiny, but I
don't watch a lot of TV/movies these days so no biggie.
Landlord / Building management: Landlord lives out east, but is very easy to get a hold of and was
responsive to issues relating to my initial move-in. No complaints with the building management
and again security is very good, which is especially important as this complex isn't in the best
area like I mentioned above.
Notes: This is the type of place that I could see myself living in long-term. Well, maybe if it
were a bit bigger. The complex is well-managed and strictly guarded. The building, while not that
old by western standards, has actually held-up pretty well by Chinese standards. The main giveaway
that this isn't a newer building is that I can sometimes hear noise from the units above and
beside me in the mornings.

I had looked at a few units in another complex nearby which weren't as strictly with the security
- there were lots of written and posted ads in the hallways of the buildings, they didn't leave a
safe impression at all.












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> Studying, Working and Living in China > Universities and Schools > Studying
Chinese in Beijing
BNU tuition and term question
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cui ruide -

Hey folks, I have a couple of questions about the BNU program...

1. Does tuition include housing and/or food?

2. Regarding short-term study (3, 4, 5 weeks, etc.)...can you start this any time of the year, or
is still within the normal time frame of a normal semester?

3. What are the dates of the normal semesters?

Thanks.



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adrianlondon -

1. No, accommodation is separate and there's a choice depending on what type of luxury/sharing you
want. Food is cheap in the student canteens, about 4y a dish.

2. I didn't know BNU did short term courses apart from the Summer course.

3. No idea; their website is notoriously rubbish. Which semester were you interested in?










monto -



Quote:

3. What are the dates of the normal semesters?

Chinese educational system is of two semesters in a year, one in the Spring (February) and another
in the Autumn ( Often 1st September). It slightly differs from one school/uni to another (around a
week or so).










extrapages -

cui ruide,

i dont know anyone who has joined in the middle of the semester and only stayed short term.
everyone began and ended following the semester schedule.

re: the summer program, i found out, is not open to individuals - but only to students that come
to bnu through a partner university from overseas (SOAS, EAP, etc.).

the semesters at bnu this past year:

FALL SEMESTER 2007
entrance test: sept 4
first day of class: sept 10
mid terms: nov 15,16
last day of class/finals: jan 14,15
---
SPRING SEMESTER 2008
entrance test: feb 20
first day of class: feb 25
mid terms: april 17-18
last day of class/finals: june 9-10










cui ruide -

Thanks guys, I'm just trying to get a general idea. I'm thinking about getting back over there
winter 08-09/spring-09 and feel like I should get back in the classroom to polish what will by
then be my rusty Chinese before looking for some work. Originally I was thinking a couple of weeks
(maybe a short, intensive month), but it seems a semester is really economical--just a matter if I
want to spend the time. Still a ways off though, so I have time to consider. ;p












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> Learning Chinese > Grammar and Vocabulary
早 and 早上好 have the same meaning?
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Nork02 -

Hi all!
can I use 早 instead 早上好?....if so, can I use them in the same situation/context?
Thanks



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monto -

Exactly the way you say "Morning" instead of "Good morning".










dsrguru -

monto's analogy is accurate. Just note that some speakers, perhaps Taiwanese or southern
Mainlanders, use 早安 (zǎo ān) instead of 早上好. I said 早上好 to a Taiwanese friend,
and he was like "What the hell? Morning good?" So I tend to use 早安 or just a plain old 你好
to be safe.










BLCUP -

早is not very formal, but it's short, so people use it in daily life especially in casual life.
早上好 is a formal use, you can use it in formal occation or meet one people in the morning for
the first time.










Nork02 -

Thank you!












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> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
HSK - Listening : Please give some strategies
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krishnamurthyu -

Hi , I am preparing for HSK - Intermediate . I am finding Listening section (3) is more difficult
than any other section could you pls give me some suggestions or strategies should be used for
listening section. Moreover this is the first time preparing for "Listening Exam".

I am listening to podcasts and audios. If spoken a bit slowly or replayed i can understand
clearly. Exam is on April-12 so Pls give some strategies which can I use in exam .



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Scoobyqueen -

Hi,

I find that reading out sentence per sentence (ie repeating what you hear on your mp3) helps. It
allows focus on each individual word and tones in context and also introduces another "memory"
variable (speaking), which can further aid the listening skills.

Also, I find it helps listening to a text sentence by sentence and then write them in hanzi, a bit
laborious perhaps, but I feel it enhances the connection between listening and hanzi (not
including the pinyin which is a third variable to contend with). Revision also plays a key role
here. I find revising three to four times with a given time interval helps retain the material
whether it be aural, oral or reading comprehension.

Someone else in this forum has given an exhaustive account of how he/she significantly improved
the listening skills using a number of well thought out tactics.










Scoobyqueen -

You probably would be well advised to use dedicated HSK material. Often the listening section is
full of colloquialisms which I am not sure are used in such a focused fashion in other sources.










wushijiao -

You might want to try the book I recommended:

http://www. /showth...=hsk+listening

Good luck!










Scoobyqueen -

Wushijiao - thanks for recommending this book. I too have got it but could not get hold of the
listening CDs (which I shall be buying when going to China).
Incidentally the author, who has international experience, teaches Chinese for foreigners at
Tsinghua and has also written other HSK books.












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> Learning Chinese > Chinese Tattoos, Chinese Names and Quick Translations
Please tell me what the image says!
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asynk -



Here's the image link : http://www.digitalsoilworks.com.ar/pict.jpg

Please, i really need to know what does the image says.
I'll thank 3 months to whoever tells me.


!!!


pikazhi.



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Quest -

Love.










renzhe -

What are the characters on the left? The top one looks like 星, I'm not sure about the bottom one.










Quest -

辰










dsrguru -

asynk, the main character in the image is the traditional form of 愛. Its Pinyin representation
is ài and it means "to love."










OracleBone -

星辰 is the writer's name, which means 'stars'.












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> Learning Chinese > Non-Mandarin Chinese
Name of Hong Kong columnist 崔少明
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zhwj -

崔少明 was one of the founding contributors to Yazhou Zhoukan, which he left to become the
managing editor of Next Magazine when in started in 1990.

I can't find any references to him in English, but that might be because I'm not searching with
the right terms - how would his name most likely be written?



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zhwj -

And I finally found it myself - Tsui Sio-ming (he has a blog on Blogspot which is how I finally
stumbled across it).

Doesn't look like he uses an English given name.












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> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
present simple vs. present perfect - bit of a fuss
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James Garrison -

在德国太阳能已被广泛应用。
In Germany solar energy is been widely used.

Thats my take on the above sentence, but I am not a native speaker nor hardly an expert. However,
I was under the impression that it could only be read as "has been widely used" if the 已 were
replaced by 过. Does "已" denote the present perfect?



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Quest -

已经 adverb. already
被...应用 verb. passive. utilized










skylee -

You cannot replace 已 with 經 in the sentence you quoted. You can however replaced 已 with
已經. They mean the same.

已 and 已經 mean that something has already happened.










James Garrison -

Okay, 已经 means the present perfect. I guess since Chinese isn't as strict as English I could
also interpret 已经 as the past simple? 过, however, is always the present perfect, right? How
do 已经 and 过 differ in use?

Argh. I wish grammar had a face so I could slap it, hahaha.










skylee -

Take a look ->

已/已經



Quote:

Already: 已經 [yi3jing1]↓;
已去，已來 already gone, come;
會已散meeting already closed;
已久 already a long time;
已亡 already dead;
已冠 over twenty years of age (“already capped”).

過



Quote:

Used to express a completed action (pr. ’[guo1]): 讀過 have read about it;
聽說過 have heard of it;
看見過 have seen it;
吃過了 have had one's meal;
打過招呼 have said hello to s.o.;
遞過暗號 have given s.o. a secret signal.

Look at it this way: 已/已經 is an adverb, it is used like "already" in English, and is put
before the verb. 過 is like a suffix to turn a verb to describe a past action, and is put after
the verb.










Altair -



Quote:

Argh. I wish grammar had a face so I could slap it, hahaha.

Absolutely!



Quote:

Okay, 已经 means the present perfect. I guess since Chinese isn't as strict as English I could
also interpret 已经 as the past simple? 过, however, is always the present perfect, right? How
do 已经 and 过 differ in use?

I think that terms like "present perfect" and "past simple" apply very well to English, to many
other European languages, and to a few other languages; however, I think these categories are
extremely awkward in reference to Chinese and will cause confusion. There are many different
Chinese structures than can correspond to what we in English call "present perfect" or "past
simple," because Chinese makes different distinctions than we do in English. Neither language is
more strict than the other, they are just strict about different things.

As for 已经 basically meaning "already," I believe this is correct; however, there are
occasional uses where it merely seems to suggest completeness or change and where we would not use
"already" in English. Here is an example of the latter usage:
清圣祖虽是少年天子、但天资聪慧、机智过人、平素努力学习历代统治经略�
��已经逐渐成熟。Kangxi (The Qing Emperor Shengzu), although he was a young emperor, was
naturally intelligent and exceptionally resourceful. He usually worked hard in studying the
governing strategies of the past dynasties and gradually matured.












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> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
多音字, duoyinzi, discussion and lists
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aimee08 -

Hi, does anyone of you know where can I find a list with the same characters that are pronounced
in different way?

I mean like the 觉 of
juéde - 觉的
or
shuì jiào - 睡觉



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skylee -

You mean something like this? -> http://www.ccss.edu.hk/playground/22...%A4@%C4%FD.pdf

It's in traditional Chinese btw (HK website).










helenlee -

In Chinese we call them duo yin zi(pinyin) 多音字, I have found some on the web and copy them
here. Hope it will help you. If you want to find more, you can paste "多音字 " on "goole web
search" and you will find many websites about it.
This is one of the web http://xh.5156edu.com/showzip18317.html
Then 108 多音字 on one of the web:
1、单：单（shàn，姓）老师说，单（chán匈奴族首领）于只会骑马，不会骑��
�（dān）车。
2、折：这两批货物都打折（zhé）出售，严重折（shé）本，他再也经不起这�
��折（zhē）腾 了。
3、喝：武松大喝（hè）一声：“快拿酒来！我要喝（hē）十二碗。”博得众
食客一阵喝（hè） 彩。
4、着：你这着（zhāo名词）真绝，让他干着（zháo动词）急，又无法着（zhuó
）手应付，心里老是悬着（zhe）。
5、蕃：吐蕃（bō藏族的前身）族在青藏高原生活、蕃（fán茂盛、繁多）衍��
�几千年。
6、量：有闲心思量（liáng）她，没度量（liàng）宽容她。野外测量（liáng）
要量（liàng）力而行。
7、沓：他把纷至沓（tà）来的想法及时写在一沓（dá）纸上，从不见他有疲
沓（ta）之色。
8、烊：商店晚上也要开门，打烊（yàng晚上关门）过早不好，糖烊（yáng溶��
�）了都卖不动了。
9、载：据史书记载（zǎi），王昭君多才多艺，每逢三年五载（zǎi）汉匈首�
��聚会，她都要载（zài）歌载（zài）舞。
10、曝：陈涛参加体育锻炼缺乏毅力、一曝（pù）十寒的事情在校会上被曝��
�bào）光，他感到十分羞愧。
11、宁：尽管他生活一直没宁（níng）静过，但他宁（nìng）死不屈，也不息�
��宁（níng）人。
12、和：天气暖和（huo），小和（hé）在家和（huó动词）泥抹墙；他讲原则�
��，是非面前从不和（huò）稀泥，也不随声附和（hè动词）别人，更不会在�
��将桌上高喊：“我和（hú）了。”
13、省：湖北副省（shěng）长李大强如能早些省（xǐng）悟，就不致于丢官弃
职、气得不省（xǐng）人事了。
14、拗：这首诗写得太拗（ào）口了，但他执拗（niù）不改，气得我把笔杆�
��拗（ǎo）断了。
15、臭：臭气熏天的臭（chòu）是指气味难闻，无声无臭的臭（xiù）是泛指��
�般气味。
16、度：度（dù姓）老师宽宏大度（dù名词），一向度（duó动词）德量力，�
��不以己度（duó动词）人。
17、哄：他那像哄（hǒng）小孩似的话，引得人们哄（hōng）堂大笑，大家听�
��一哄（hòng）而散。
18、丧：他穿着丧（sāng）服，为丧（sāng）葬费发愁，神情沮丧（sàng）、��
�头丧（sàng）气。
19、差：他每次出差（chāi）差（chà）不多都要出点差（chā）错。
20、扎：鱼拼命挣扎（zhá），鱼刺扎（zhā）破了手，他随意包扎（zā）一下
。
21、埋：他自己懒散，却总是埋（mán）怨别人埋（mái）头工作。
22、盛：盛（shèng）老师盛（shèng）情邀我去她家做客，并帮我盛（chéng）��
�。
23、伧：这个人衣着寒伧（chen），语言伧（cāng）俗。
24、创：勇于创（chuàng）造的人难免会遭受创（chuāng）伤。
25、伯：我是她的大伯（bó），不是她的大伯（bǎi）子。
26、疟：发疟（yāo）子就是患了疟（nǜe）疾。
27、看：看（kān）守大门的保安也很喜欢看（kàn）小说。
28、行：银行（háng）发行（xíng）股票，报纸刊登行（háng） 情。
29、艾：他在耆艾（ài）之年得了艾（ài）滋病，整天自怨自艾（yì）。
30、把：你把（bǎ）水缸把（bà）摔坏了，以后使用没把（bǎ）柄了。
31、传:《鸿门宴》是汉代传（zhuàn）记而不是唐代传（chuán）奇。
32、荷：荷（hé）花旁边站着一位荷（hè）枪实弹的战士。
33、涨：我说她涨（zhǎng）了工资，她就涨（zhàng）红着脸摇头否认。
34、奇：数学中奇（jī）数是最奇（qí）妙的。
35、炮：能用打红的炮（pào）筒炮（bāo）羊肉和炮（páo）制药材吗？
36、给：请把这封信交给（gěi）团长，告诉他，前线的供给（jǐ）一定要有�
��障。
37、冠：他得了冠（guàn）军后就有点冠（guān）冕堂皇了。
38、干：穿着干（gān）净的衣服干（gàn）脏活，真有点不协调。
39、巷：矿下的巷（hàng）道与北京四合院的小巷（xiàng）有点相似。
40、薄：薄（bò）荷油味不薄（báo），很受欢迎，但要薄（bó）利多销。
41、拓：拓片、拓本的“拓”读 tà ，开拓、拓荒的“拓”读 tuò 。
42、恶：这条恶（è）狗真可恶（wù），满身臭味，让人闻了就恶（ě）心。
43、便：局长大腹便便（pián），行动不便（biàn）。
44、宿：小明在宿（sù）舍说了一宿（xiǚ）有关星宿（xiǜ）的常识。
45、号：受了批评，那几名小号（hào）手都号（háo）啕大哭起来。
46、藏：西藏（zàng）的布达拉宫是收藏（cáng）大藏（zàng）经的宝藏（zàng
）。
47、轧：轧（zhá）钢车间的工人很团结，没有相互倾轧（yà）的现象。
48、卡：这辆藏匿毒品的卡（kǎ）车在过关卡（qiǎ）时被截住了。
49、调：出现矛盾要先调（diào）查，然后调（tiáo）解。
50、模：这两件瓷器模（mú）样很相似，像是由一个模（mó）型做出来的。
51、没：驾车违章，证件被交警没（mò）收了，他仍像没（méi）事一样。
52、舍：我真舍（shě）不得离开住了这么多年的宿舍（shè）。
53、殷：老林家境殷（yīn）实，那清一色殷（yān）红的实木家具令人赞叹不
已。
54、还：下课后我还（hái）要去图书馆还（huán）书。
55、系：你得系（jì）上红领巾去学校联系（xì）少先队员来参加活动。
56、假：假（jiǎ）如儿童节学校不放假（jià），我们怎么办？
57、降：我们有办法使从空中降（jiàng）落的敌人投降（xiáng）。
58、脯：胸脯（pú）、果脯（fǔ）不是同一个读音。
59、间：他们两人之间（jiān）的友谊从来没有间（jiàn）断过。
60、石：两石（dàn）石（shí）子不够装一卡车。
61、劲：球场上遇到劲（jìng）敌，倒使他干劲（jìn）更足了。
62、茄：我不喜欢抽雪茄（jiā）烟，但我喜欢吃番茄（qié）。
63、刨：我刨（bào推刮）平木头，再去刨（páo挖掘）花生。
64、弹：这种弹（dàn）弓弹（tán）力很强。
65、颤：听到这个噩耗，小刘颤（zhàn）栗，小陈颤（chàn）抖。
66、扒：他扒（bā）下皮鞋，就去追扒（pá）手。
67、散：我收集的材料散（sàn）失了，散（sǎn）文没法写了。
68、数：两岁能数（shǔ）数（shù）的小孩已数（shuò）见不鲜了。
69、参：人参（shēn）苗长得参（cēn）差不齐，还让人参（cān）观吗。
70、会：今天召开的会（kuài）计工作会（huì）议一会（huì）儿就要结束了�
��
71、簸：他用簸（bò）箕簸（bǒ）米。
72、吓：敌人的恐吓（hè）吓（xià）不倒他。
73、胖：肥胖（pàng）并不都是因为心宽体胖（pán），而是缺少锻炼。
74、耙：你用梨耙（bà）耙（bà）地，我用钉耙（pá）耙（pá）草。
75、伺：边伺（cì）候他边窥伺（sì）动静。
76、好：好（hào）逸恶劳、好（hào）为人师的做法都不好（hǎo）。
77、咳：咳（haī）！你怎么又咳（ké）起来了？
78、处：教务处（chù）正在处（chǔ）理这个问题。
79、囤：大囤（dùn）、小囤（dùn），都囤（tún）满了粮食。
80、缝：这台缝（féng）纫机的台板有裂缝（fèng）。
81、澄：澄（dèng）清混水易，澄（chéng）清问题难。
82、扇：他拿着扇（shàn）子却扇（shān）不来风。
83、得：你得（děi必须）把心得（dé）体会写得（de）具体、详细些。
84、屏：他屏（bǐng）气凝神躲在屏（píng）风后面。
85、几：这几（jǐ）张茶几（jī）几（jī）乎都要散架了。
86、卷：考卷（juàn）被风卷（juǎn）起，飘落到了地上。
87、乐：教我们音乐（y&＃7909；è）的老师姓乐（y&＃7909；è），他乐（lè）�
��助人。
88、了：他了（liào）望半天，对地形早已了（liǎo）如指掌了(le)。
89、吭： 小李一声不吭（kēng），小王却引吭（háng）高歌。
90、粘：胶水不粘（nián）了，书页粘（zhān）不紧。
91、畜：畜（xù）牧场里牲畜（chù）多。
92、称：称（chèng同“秤”）杆的名称（chēng）、实物要相称（chèn）
93．弄：别在弄（lòng）堂在玩弄（nòng）小鸟。
94．俩：他兄弟俩（liǎ）耍猴的伎俩（liǎng）不过如此。
95、露：小杨刚一露(lòu)头，就暴露（lù）了目标。
96、重：老师很重(zhòng)视这个问题，请重（chóng）说一遍。
97、率：他办事从不草率（shuài），效率（lǜ）一向很高。
98．空：有空（kòng）闲就好好读书，尽量少说空（kōng）话。
99．泊：小船漂泊（bó）在湖泊（pō）里。
100．朝：我朝（zhāo）气蓬勃朝（cháo）前走。
101．膀：膀（páng）胱炎会使人膀（pāng）肿吗？
102．校：上校（xiào）到校（jiào）场找人校(jiào)对材料。
103．强：小强（qiáng）很倔强（jiàng），做事别勉强（qiǎng）他。
104．塞（sài）外并不闭塞（sè），塞（sāi）子塞（sāi）不住漏洞。
105．辟：随意诬陷人搞封建复辟（bì）可不行，得辟（pì）谣。
106．倒：瓶子倒（dǎo）了，水倒（dào）了出来。
107．都：大都（dū名词）市的人口都（dōu副词）很多。
108．匙：汤匙（chí）、钥匙（shi）都放在桌子上。










heifeng -

here we started a thread: http://www. /showthread.php?t=17287
and here

and there are probably a ton of books on them too. Even online you can just search 多音字 Have
fun....










heifeng -

wow, you guys answer fast...I thought I was gonna be able to post first on one of my favorite
topics ...hehe










aimee08 -

oh thank you so much!!!!
I didn't know they are called 多音字， so I couldn't search if there were already open thread,
sorry.










skylee -

Here is a list in simplified Chinese with 243 (if I count right) 多音字 in doc format -
常用多音字规范表 ->
http://www.lbx777.com/ywfj/ywcs/wz/images/cydyz01.doc

I note that 着 and 著 are two separate entries on this list. hmmm ...










aimee08 -

thanks skylee, that's perfect










roddy -

Attaching two files.

The .doc file is a simple list of the 108 多音字 in the link above suitable for importing into
your preferred flashcard program (although how that flashcard program handles 多音字 is another
matter).

The .txt is a Plecodict friendly list of all words in the increasingly laggard HSK database which
contain any one of those 多音字. Bear in mind that some 多音字 may only have one
pronunciation within the HSK lists - all of those words will still be included. Eg 单 results in
简单 etc appearing, although the shàn version doesn't.

I would probably have been wiser to use the longer list of 243 to generate this, but I happened to
be looking at the shorter one of 108 when I started thinking about this. If anyone wants to come
up with or find a clean list of the 243 that I can just plug into the database I'll be able to
generate a more complete list of associated words. What also might be useful is a list of
多音字 within the scope of the HSK.

The Pleco format, in case anyone wants to convert it to something else, is just

// LIST NAME
CharsPin1yin1
CharsPin1yin1










roddy -

Attaching:
A list of all characters in the 现代汉语常用多音字词例, one entry per pronunciation.
About 300 characters, just under 700 pronunciations. There's a 次常用多音字词例 also,
about one third of the length. Will post that if / when I do it. For reference the
现代汉语常用字表 (ie not just 多音字) is about 2,500 characters, the 次常用 1,000.

It's called a 词例 as there's a third column, with lists of words for each pronunciation, or an
explanation, which I haven't typed in, and don't plan to if importing into Plecodict has decent
results (which is why I have one entry per pronunciation, rather than multiple pronunciations per
line)

The list does some odd stuff, eg omits huǐ for 会, includes a neutral tone 点 because of 打点
but not for similar words, etc.












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